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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 19, 2013 10:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

So, Skobud. You reposted your 3-year-old post below on how "attending a show live is crucial to understanding the band."

I'm assuming it wasn't just on the theory that if folks like listening to old Dead, they might also like reading old posts, and someone might pick it up to make a matrix :-)

Three years on, as folks born the year The Fat Man died* await their college acceptance letters (with few of them, presumably, planning to attend Grateful Dead University), do you still agree with yourself?

Others who posted on that thread: Do you all still agree with yourselves?

* a year in which, as it happens, anyone born in Magic '77, before he was The Fat Man, were also preparing for college ...

Btw, happy 45th anniversary to this incredible piece of art:

http://archive.org/details/gd1968-01-20.sbd.miller.97340.sbeok.flac16

To carry on the rambling Time Passes theme, anyone born the year of THAT show would have gone to Grateful Dead University in time to be a post-coma Touchhead ...

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jan 20, 2013 9:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Althea - I feel even stronger today about what I wrote three years ago. Just look at the responses and multiple interpretations of what I wrote. The debate rages even harder today.

The funny thing is, I never intended on this being an exclusionary point. It actually is however. You went or you did not. So many people took this as an insult or a shot at those who did not get a chance to go, but that was never my point. My point had to do with understanding the culture at a show and how it relates today.

The Grateful Dead experience is the "IT" people are talking about. The experience is seeing them live. If you have done it, you understand. If you have not, you cannot fully understand what I mean.

It is that simple.

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Poster: ghostofpig Date: Jan 20, 2013 5:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I stand by my opinion from then. I don't like to see groups/artists in large settings because it's hard to get into the music--all the distractions. By the time the band was playing arenas--1972--it just felt weird sitting in a seat that would be used for a hockey game the next night. I can't imagine seeing them in a stadium. But venues like the Fillmore East, The Academy of Music (the Palladium)--and smaller allow one to connect more readily with the band. Plus, in the early days, it was a gig, not a "show." So back then, seeing added a lot to the experience. Everything was new, the whole "hippie thing" was still relatively real, and the band was right in front of you.

Still, the tapes--it IS about the music. I never saw Coltrane, but I can listen to him all day. I wish I'd seen him, but I can enter his music and have my mind blown through its preservation on tape. The tapes are sharp, clear, and one is free from distractions which allows one to hear honestly.

Point is both are good: the live scene and the mellow recap.
And either can allow you to appreciate the music. But only one can allow you to appreciate the SHOW.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 20, 2013 7:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

a) I stand by my "musical discussion" point. I never taped Jerry playing banjo or pedal steel, but I did attend and tape many other very good banjo and steel players nearly 40 years ago. I was a soundman for some of them. My points deserve to be mentioned in these musician discussions.

b) I agree with what ghostofpig is saying. Unlike him, I only saw GD shows in 1973, only in my regional area. That was my moment, and I went. These shows were mind-blowing huge shows. I never saw Pig or Mickey play. I had tapes of them to listen to. But it wasn't enough, so I went to some shows. Their shows were too huge for me after that, but the sound was absolutely frigging amazing to me. Their PA system and the Aux PA used at RFK Stadium in 1973 was the best sound I ever heard. To this day, I've never heard anything even close to what Alembic, GD, and their crew did to the sound system that weekend. My life changed hugely. The rest is history. I published my tapes five years ago.

I taped numerous shows 35 and 40 years ago. That's how I became a soundman. Then I got into electronics and worked for Ampex. My old tapes circulate here on the LMA. I created several band collections for them. Because of the GD, Alembic, Owsley Stanley, and Ampex Corporation, I am alive and well today. They built me. That's why and how I built a Taper's Handbook and a demo Compendium for you guys and the IA.

(With all due respect, it appears to me GD, Alembic, Owsley Stanley, and Ampex Corporation also built IA's Jeff Kaplan.)

Bottom line, regarding attending shows: you should attend at least one show, somewhere, sometime, so that you have a little firsthand live music experience. Then you should spend some time listening to shows at the LMA. Then you should read some of our posts. Then you should discuss all this with friends, family, and workers.

For me, what's more important than the importance attending shows? What's most important to me is knowing where stuff comes from, why stuff is there, how stuff got there, how long stuff has been there, etc.

Today, people only use Google searches to learn where stuff comes from. This is the only stuff out there that they know about. They visit the vendor's website after searching, they add the item to their cart, and then the UPS or FedEx guy delivers it to them within 48 hours.

Today the LMA has over 111,000 items by over 5600 bands. Where does this stuff come from? I mean, REALLY-WHERE, not "which website has the tapes for you to d/l". This is the question that made me village idiot in-Chief around here. Idiots like me sometimes repeat themselves. I'm taking my values and this lifestyle to the grave with me.

Bing Crosby's first taped radio show on The Archive

• reposted: Bing Crosby's true legend is way under the radar

220px-Bing_Crosby_1942.jpgHarry Lillis "Bing" Crosby (May 3, 1903 – October 14, 1977) was an American singer and actor. Crosby's trademark bass-baritone voice made him one of the best-selling recording artists of the 20th century, with over half a billion records in circulation. A multimedia star from 1934 to 1954, Bing Crosby was a leader in record sales, radio ratings and motion picture grosses. His early career coincided with technical recording innovations. This allowed him to develop a laid-back, intimate singing style that influenced many of the popular male singers who followed him, including Perry Como, Frank Sinatra, and Dean Martin.

Crosby exerted an important influence on the development of the post-war tape recording industry. He worked for NBC at the time and wanted to record his shows. Most broadcast networks did not allow recording. This was mainly because of the quality of recording at the time. While in Europe performing during World War two, Crosby had witnessed tape recording, on which The Crosby Research Foundation would come to have many patents. The company also developed equipment and recording techniques such as the Laugh Track which are still in use today.

In 1947, he invested $50,000 in the Ampex company, which built North America's first commercial reel-to-reel tape recorder. He left NBC to work for ABC because NBC was not interested in recording at the time. This proved beneficial because ABC accepted him and his new ideas. Crosby then became the first performer to pre-record his radio shows and master his commercial recordings onto magnetic tape. He gave one of the first Ampex Model 200 recorders to his friend, musician Les Paul, which led directly to Paul's invention of multi-track recording. Along with Frank Sinatra, Crosby was one of the principal backers behind the famous United Western Recorders recording studio complex in Los Angeles.

When his recording of White Christmas hit the streets in weary, war-torn 1942, it became the biggest-selling single of all time and launched the Christmas music industry we know today (Christmas music, while hardly unknown, was not a major industry before this). In 1946, he revolutionized the entire broadcast industry by insisting on tape recording his radio programs for future broadcasting, the second most important development in 20th century entertainment after the advent of films with synched optical sound (1920s). Ampex invented the video tape recorder in 1955.

Bing Crosby and the 12-channel prototype "Bing Crosby video tape recorder"
Bing+and+Friend+with+Tape+Recorder.jpg

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Poster: Reade Date: Jan 21, 2013 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

A part-owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates, he couldn't bear to watch the climatic 7th game of the 1960 World Series against the powerful New York Yankees. He traveled to Paris to escape the tension, and later enjoyed essentially a video recording of the TV broadcast of the improbable Pirate victory- that he had arranged to be made in his absence. This exists today as the only complete record of that most historic game.
Ahead of his time to say the least.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/sports/baseball/24crosby.html?_r=0

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 21, 2013 11:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Re: that most historic game

"Crosby knew he would want to watch the game later — if his Pirates won — so he hired a company to record Game 7 by kinescope, an early relative of the DVR, filming off a television monitor. The five-reel set, found in December in Crosby’s home, is the only known complete copy of the game, in which Pirates second baseman Bill Mazeroski hit a game-ending home run to beat the Yankees, 10-9. It is considered one of the greatest games ever played."

Re: my Wesleyan Univ tapes comment, the Kent State massacre, Bill Mazeroski, and "this [amazing] shit"

On the day of the Kent State shootings, May 4, 1970, major league baseball played evening games in the eastern time zone. These games would have been played AFTER the shootings. It behooves us to note that Bill Mazeroski played in one of them. Who would have attended? Mazeroski batted 3 for 5 with one RBI that evening. Teammate Roberto Clemente batted 2 for 4 with one RBI. But their Pirates lost to the Atlanta Braves, 5 to 3.

Monday, May 4, 1970, 8:05PM, Atlanta Stadium
Attendance: 7,457
Length of Game: 2:38
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL197005040.shtml

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 23, 2013 10:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Monte Barry - 2nd baseman, pitcher, lead-off batter - May 1962
played 5 years for the Elks Lodge Little League baseball team


monte-barry_may-1962.jpg

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jan 21, 2013 9:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Very cool. Thanks for posting. And Dick Groat may have been the best athlete ever to come from Duke. My dad's hero and best gift I ever gave him was a Groat rookie baseball card for father's day one year.

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Poster: Reade Date: Jan 21, 2013 10:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Glad you enjoyed it.

Unlike Lou Gehrig, who through an amazing coincidence actually ended up coming down with Lou Gehrig's disease, Groat has yet to contract the disease named after him.
Oh wait, that one was fictional.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Groats%20Disease

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jan 21, 2013 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

That was very interesting article,I had no idea that game was missing from the MLB archives,I have seen the video of the Mazerowski home run countless times.It indeed was one of the greatest World Series games ever played in that it ended with a bottom of the ninth homer in game 7 that defeated the almighty Yankees.
I knew Bing was owned a piece of the team,but the whole listening on the radio in Paris/taping the tv broadcast will forever be an odd footnote to a great game.

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Poster: Reade Date: Jan 21, 2013 1:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

The footage you've seen of that game, Berra racing back to the wall, (the radio broadcast: "Back to the wall goes Berra"...), Maz circling the bases, etc., are excerpted from newsreel clips of the game much like the famous Willie Mays catch in the '54 series. Which is the extent of the nature of the footage that tends to exist from that era. No sound of course.

There's precious little of recorded TV broadcasts from back then, and what does exist seems to do so only miraculously. The Don Larsen game from 1956 mentioned in the Times article- recorded exactly the same way Crosby had his game preserved -was done so by the Armed Forces for purposes of eventual rebroadcast to our service men and women overseas. And only then did it happen that somebody found the original (actually four of the five reels) at an estate sale in 1990 and from there it eventually made it's way to ESPN for broadcast and then to MLB.

Those kinescope recordings off of the TV were both cumbersome and expensive. As the article briefly explained, one had to actually hire somebody to set up essentially a video camera in front of a TV screen. Both these instances make clear there needed to be great incentive to produce one of these things.

Incidentally, Forbes Field, where that 7th game in 1960 was played no longer exists but the site is now a part of the campus of the University of Pittsburgh, which has gone to some lengths to honor that great day when Maz' drive sailed over the left field wall as Yogi helplessly watched.

http://deadballbaseball.com/?p=52

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jan 21, 2013 4:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

That was really cool of the university to pay homage to Forbes Field and the players with that brick wall and the plaques.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Jan 21, 2013 1:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Lou Gehrig getting Lou Gehrig's disease. Wow, what are the odds? He should have considered himself the luckiest man on the face of the earth.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jan 21, 2013 11:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

HA! Had no idea- thanks.

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Poster: JackDog Date: Jan 20, 2013 5:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

"attending a show live is crucial to understanding the band."

As silly as that sounds, there's a lot of truth to it. A good comparison would be sports--you could be the biggest sports fan on Earth, but you don't really "get it" until you go to a live sporting event. Audio and video are great, but they just can't capture everything that comes with being there.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 20, 2013 8:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

Stop the drivel (mine included): re-reading it all has convinced me, per usual, I are right, and others are confused.

First and foremost: confusion--of course attending a show is a unique and singular event, and if you went, for a variety of reasons no one can get "it" (little, insignificant "it"). But, this is NOT the question at hand.

The question is, were DEAD shows somehow dramatically more significant than other bands, and that only seeing them live allowed you to get "IT" (big, significant "IT").

OK?

Second, on this level, it's the myth, the "IT" myth, that I am attacking, as I don't believe the big IT for the DEAD is true, though all of us use phrases like "there is nothing like a..." and blah, blah, blah.

And, I stand by all the evidence I mustered prior to reveal the IT myth is just that...the DEAD were not infinitely better live; the DEAD were not truly innovative in that they segued from song to song on stage due to telepathic powers, and that the suites (MofM--DS--StSt--Eleven) were born on stage and never rehearsed (we believed this), blah, blah, blah.

The DEAD experience had many idiosyncratic components, but by and large the "you had to see them live to appreciate them", etc., etc., is way overdone...

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 20, 2013 9:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: a village idiot explains it all

My best drivel: I'm just a village-idiot; I'm an average-Joe; I lived a happy-go-lucky lifestyle. All three are true! What's dumber than that? Why would a village idiot matrix his own tapes forty years later? I like it when the tapes sound better!

Re: Althea's matrix comment, the theory that if folks like listening to old Dead, they might also like reading old posts, and someone might pick it up to make a matrix

Kevin Tobin beat me to it!
Tobin matrix for my June 10, 1973 tapes
GD73-06-10.gif

My first matrix is my first time taping!
my June 9, 1973 matrix of my tapes
GD73-06-09.gif

My second matrix is my tapes of Jer's 1973 b'day
my Aug 1, 1973 matrix of my tapes
GD73-08-01.gif

My last matrix is for the Smithsonian Institute!
my Dec 18, 1973 matrix of Adam G's tapes
GD73-12-18.gif
Review for Dec 18, 1973 SBD: Another spectacular Eaton/Miller collaboration - Dick picked the wrong Curtis Hixon show!

Although the first set moves a bit slowly, this is truly a special performance. Jazzed out to the max and packed with slashing leads from Weir, this is easily among the very best shows of 1973, and definately one of the best sounding files archived here!

The China/Rider segue, though mellow, is extremely well jammed, and the WRS/Let it Grow combo is as jazzy as any played. Is that Becker and Fagan sitting in?

One of the better Dark Stars of '73, complete with a terrifying feedback segment, and the amazing Weir/Lesh interplay during Eyes of the World (where is Jer?), make this one rather unique and very special. (99+ pts)
- reviewed by Cliff Hucker, written on Feb 22, 2009

The AUD tape is so good, it sounds like a SBD. The taper had Garcia's and the band's permission to record, and was able to record very close to the stage. It doesn't appear to circulate very much, although some known dat copies were made in the mid-1990s. This is from a transfer the taper did in 1998, burned to CD.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 20, 2013 10:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re Attending shows: the village idiot says "pictures are priceless"

gd-boys-roses-2.gif
download GD's time-stamped photo collection — 937 JPGs in a 260MB zip archive file

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Poster: stratocaster Date: Jan 20, 2013 8:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

I believe in the IT...i would not have tapped into the dead like i have if i had not seen a dead show live, it changed everything about the way i listened to the music...I also could feel the gestalt effect happen at a Dead show, yes Bon Jovi may have gotten 50,000 fans to hold lighters and scream along to Living on a Prayer, it's deeper at a Dead show, it taps into something subconscious that acid enhances... I also believe in the X factor...their improve style and set lists allowed for interesting things to happen...they just had better songs and more interesting jams than other similar bands ...as at as telepathy, it sounds weird but it is more like musicians intuition...play with each other long enough and it happens, lyre at teamwork musically...lastly whoever believes that the dead did not rehearse these suites is naive...75 and early 76 were basically studio years rehearsing

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Poster: Old_NJ_Head_Zimmer Date: Jan 20, 2013 12:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

I agree with the 'it' theory and would never have taken on such an interest and 200 shows if I didn't believe there was some magic in a live dead / Jerry show. To me here was the show and there there was the music. Sometimes one was great the other not so and vise versa, one was personal and one was communal - I didn't believe I would be here listening to 40 year old shows if I had never experienced one live. Mind altering yes - life changing - yes able to understand without the experience - no
My .02

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jan 21, 2013 6:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

I have to agree w/ this also .This band in part because as I said previously was not a radio friendly band like the Doors,Airplane Eagles and many others.Because of this it was a word of mouth thing when you got to hear this band .The rap I got was they play very long shows w/ 2 sets a break w/ a formula involved.The 1st set would consist of rockers some ballads cowboy songs and the like.The 2nd set well was a more experimental thing w/ songs running into one another coming around after long jams,a drumm solo,duet back into a song that sometimes started it all.All this well and good if well they were good on this night because as I have said many times when they were good they were the best at what they did and took you places that many have never been to before ,but when they were bad and now so many more of you are conceeding that very bad shows happened often and when they were bad they were fucking horrible w/ no middle ground and generally no recovery.

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 20, 2013 8:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

True then. But would it be true now, in the digital era, if you were born in 1990 and never had the option of seeing the band but could hear all the stuff here, watch YouTube clips, maybe go to Furthur, etc? Would that mean you couldn't ever get IT?

Or, if you were a born-in-'90 Deadhead -- if you were such a licorice-loving eccentric that you latched onto this particular music even WITHOUT a show -- mightn't that mean you're even MORE coded to "get" this stuff than those of us who tapped into it from seeing live shows?

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Jan 20, 2013 4:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

I'm afraid I disagree Tell. As much as I liked Live Dead, Europe 72 and Skull and Roses etc., nothing prepared me for the overwhelming experience that was live. And trust me I was not into sweaty dance shows either. It was the spontaneity, the physicality of the sound, the emotion, the excitement that carried me off into the ethers. Obsessing over tapes was and is only a way to feebly try to recreate what I experienced live.

And I did feel the IT. When the band started working into something nifty and the crowd sensed it and started spontaneously roaring, and the band picked up on it and started pushing more. At times like that, we all felt like were part of it, no matter how small. And I've seen 100's and 100's of other concerts and never quite experienced it that way. How I wish I could experience that again.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jan 20, 2013 5:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

Am I the only one that got "IT" largely due to all the sweet, welcoming "hippy" chicks at the shows, in the lot, and around the scene? That doesn't come through on a good matrix.


Yep, I'm one shallow SOB.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jan 24, 2013 9:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

Dude, no, you're not. I have a very clear image of what to me at the time seemed like the gorgeous hippie chick I'd ever seen -- who was probably butt-ugly -- but who nevertheless had a very hot bod and was doing this thing on the railing of Three Rivers Stadium that well.. you know. I'll never forget that. This band is for me, I thought.

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Poster: Diamondhead Date: Jan 20, 2013 6:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Tell explains it all

LOL. Patchouli makes me gag. à chacun son goût

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Poster: RJ_Squirrel Date: Jan 20, 2013 8:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Never saw them.

But while I wish I had, it would have been between 91-95, and honestly there were MUCH better things going on in music than what the Dead had to offer at that point. I don't regret not seeing them in a football field full of college student assholes, while Jerry phoned it in. Would I have understood their appeal from seeing that? People who were there have told me I didn't miss anything.

I've been to see Furthur a few times, including a road trip through some crazy weather that I'll never forget, checked out the parking lot, met some cool people and some freaks... in that respect, I want to think I "get it" at least as much as I could've had I seen the Dead in the '90s. And the music is a lot better.

Also, sometimes I read stuff written by people who saw them 100+ times, and I wonder if THEY got it.... Hate Donna/love Brent/hate Furthur/demand the god-given right to download the entire contents of the vault in 24 bit FLAC for free, etc... everyone has opinions, but I'm not sure exactly what people took away from the experience based on such things.






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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 20, 2013 10:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Yep, seeing the band live was amazing and I wouldn't trade the experiences for anything, but do I feel that seeing them live makes me appreciate the "it" (if "it" even exist, as our friend WT seems to be bent on convincing himself....you get 'em, WT) any more or less? Nope. Love for music is love for music no matter how it gets to you. I know a few folks who had gotten "it" long before they saw them live. Seeing them just added to something they already had.

I would love for someone to explain exactly what this mysterious "it" really is. Love for the band? Love for the music? Love for the scene? Love for the myth? I would say that "it" is something very different for each person and how they get "it" is immaterial and in no way better or more intense then the next hygiene-challenged freak's experience.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jan 20, 2013 10:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I would say the "IT" has nothing to do with love for the music. Specifically the "It" I am talking about was experiencing the entire scene for a live show. Something like this:

Hearing the particular tour announcing the dates for the first time on the hotline. The wait on mail order. The anticipation. The taking forever to get here feeling. The actual "show day is here" moment. The ride in. The new campsite or motel. The drive to the lot. The lot. The lot getting weirder. The show. Space. Jerry singing right to you. Cowboy tunes blowing you away. The feeling of disbelief that the show was already over. The ride home. The campground or hotel. The ride back home the next day. First day back talking about it.


All of that and a million more things is exactly what I mean.

I was a kid when I was doing this shit. I dont know how else to put it other than this:

The entire culture of a live show experience is the exact "IT" I am talking about. I know it can be interpreted a million different ways. I am just speaking for myself when I say that. That is what "IT" means to me.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jan 20, 2013 8:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

That's well put. For better or for worse, by the time I was seeing them, the GD had become a rite of passage. The music was all out there already. The catalog was already complete. What was left was to go and see them; to mingle with the tribe; to immerse yourself in the experience for days or weeks at a time. The whole thing might have just been a big sham by then, but none of that really mattered to me.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 20, 2013 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Little "it"

Nicely described. But still little.

Call me: Big Shit.

;)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jul 21, 2013 12:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

bus ride to the Watkins Glen stage for their free July 27, 1973 soundcheck jam bonus show
19730727_1963.jpg

— "the jam (track 10) on July 27, 1973 is required listening" for serious Deadheads —
porta-potty line forms up after "IT" happened at the Watkins Glen soundcheck jam
dead-head_Monte-watkins-glen-outhouses.JPG

"IT & Shitting" — Watkins Glen fans take the "biggest shit in America"

watkins_glen_news_headline.jpg

Many historians claimed that the Watkins Glen event was the largest gathering of people in the history of the United States, about 600,000. In essence, that meant that on July 27 and 28, one out of every 350 people living in America at the time was listening to the sounds of Grateful Dead at this New York state racetrack. Considering that most of those who attended the event hailed from the Northeast, and that the average age of those present was approximately seventeen to twenty-four, close to one out of every three young people from Boston to New York was at the festival — including myself.

This was the biggest venue Grateful Dead ever played. 600,000 music fans invaded this small upstate NY town of 2000. All I remember about going there and "attending" are 2 things: the incredible journey it was getting there from the NJ-NYC area; and that I was in survival mode for the whole event. I drove my car there with some friends. The main body of my NJ deadhead friends rented a huge motorhome, and they drove it up there. Then they proceeded to trash it. I believe I helped them out with that. The rest of the shit, as they say, is history.

• Here's a page out of my Taper's Handbook: Watkins Glen — July 27 and 28, 1973



This post was modified by Monte B Cowboy on 2013-07-21 19:24:42

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jan 20, 2013 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

the "biggest shit in America""

wasn't that Altamont

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 20, 2013 4:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

c'mon Bill... according to wikipedia: The Altamont Speedway Free Festival was an infamous rock concert held on Saturday, December 6, 1969, at the Altamont Speedway in northern California. Approximately 300,000 people attended the concert, and some anticipated that it would be a "Woodstock West."

not to mention, Hunter Seamons matrixed the free Watkins Glen soundcheck bonus show:
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1973-07-27.mtx.seamons.100410.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jan 21, 2013 5:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

It seems I may have mis-interpreted your use of "shit". In fact, my interpretaition may have been the polar opposite of yours.

You meant "the shit", but I meant "shit".

This post was modified by user unknown on 2013-01-22 01:50:17

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Poster: high flow Date: Jan 21, 2013 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Hahahaha! This thread got me watching George Carlin for 45 minutes. Thanks, I'm never too busy for George.:)

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Poster: user unknown Date: Jan 22, 2013 8:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

"Have you ever noticed that their stuff is shit and your shit is stuff? "

http://tinyurl.com/bx9brwh

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jan 20, 2013 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

There are two mitigating factors at work here.

The 1) Importance of having attended a show or shows is critical to "getting" the band. We all know people in our lives or perfect strangers on line who hear the tapes and either say "I just don't see what's so great about these guys", or react with outright hostility and name calling that would make even the most embittered opposed members of Congress seem like bosom buddies. Now, maybe these people MIGHT have had the same reaction having been to a show, but I'm guessing that even those who didn;t care for the music in the final analysis would AT LEAST begrudgingly admit that the palpable sense of sheer excitement, lunacy, passion, hell just call it what it is: LOVE for this band and what they were doing on stage--the ebb and flow & give and take between the output and energy of the music and the call and response of the crowd--was indeed something special and not at all like any other concert they had attended previously. (This sense would be increased w/any time spent pre-show in the carnival-like tailgating atmosphere in the parking lot.)

2) There is also an X-factor that has nothing to do with attending a show that some younger heads i've spoken to (creatures to me who are amazing in their love for a band that was basically relegated to dinosaur status by the mid-70's, never mind its irrelevance in modern-day Bieber-world; the brief blip into top-tendom of "Touch of Grey" notwithstanding) have expressed, which is an affinity for THIS music itself that does not necessarily require having seen them live: i.e. The weirdly perfect crafting of eclectic musical styles--from jazz to funk to psychedelia to country to flat out rock and roll and ballads and folk--with the majestically and all-too-underrated beautiful lyrics penned by Hunter and Barlowe that EVOKE emotion...that MEAN something to the listener. The reason why I am enthralled now and forever by the blissful combination of soaring jams in "Scarlet" and "Birdsong" and "Eyes" combined with the zen truth of the message: "Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"...."When you hear that same sweet song again will you know why/anyone who sings a tune so sweet is passing by"...."Sometimes we live no particular way but our own..." These songs come to mean something more than the sum of their parts to those who love them. You don't need to have seen them performed live to appreciate them...(of course it only helps), but DeadHeads are in the end a unique bunch who somehow cohere to a shared vision and feeling that this band produced greatness and originality that could not be equaled anywhere else in the traditional musical business universe. They existed apart from it while at the same time being technically a part OF it. More simply put of course by Garcia himself: "Not everyone likes licorice, but people who like licorice REALLY like licorice."

In the end, the 70+ shows I saw between 1979 and 1994 were delightful, giddy, magical events spent dancing, singing, partying with friends, pouring over the minutiae of each performance to try and stretch out its permanence in the mind; a once-in-a-lifetime thrill of anticipation and release where I could exist outside myself for the duration of the show and revel in songs that I knew and loved so well I could sing them in my sleep...sharing them with a small group of friends and then thousands of strangers who all felt like friends.

No, there was NOTHING like a Grateful Dead concert, and even though you didn't have to have gone to a show to "get" the band, I wish everyone had been able to...at least once...to be able to say "Thank you...for a real good time."

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 20, 2013 8:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

>an affinity for THIS music itself that does not necessarily require having seen them live:

Right. Some people latch onto this particular music and REALLY latch onto it; for whatever reason, it generated a whole scene around it consisting of other people who latched onto this particular music and REALLY latched onto it, and while that was definitely a big part of the experience (almost two sides of the same coin, in the sense that the best iterations of the music that drew people in were actually live, so you got the culture with the music and the music with the culture) ... if there's wasn't Something About the Music in the first place there'd have been no scene and no nothing and we wouldn't be talking about it now!

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 20, 2013 7:24pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I see what you mean. But which IT? That was sort of the point of the different eras I mentioned. While I do think there was an IT that ran through the eras, and it did relate in part to the vibe you picked up at the show, and it would be dishonest to say that part of the appeal of the band wasn't linked to that whole culture/show vibe, I also think that the IT was different in different band eras. Not 100 percent different, but different.

Quick for instance: Your definition of the IT makes it inseperable from the culture. And I actually agree with that. But, well, winter shows in the late 70s in the Midwest definitely didn't start with a call to a (non-existant) hotline, and if there was some kind of lot scene, I sure couldn't tell. OK, some people sold stuff, and there was a raw raggedy hippie vibe to the "scene" (such as it was) that was different from, say, Roxy Music. But it wasn't like the incredible circus of the iconic UberTour Era of the late 80s/early 90s. Which meant the vibe was different. So was the IT also different?

If people can get different ITs and feel they've had The Grateful Dead Experience, then I guess I think, Why can't they also listen to the music without ever seeing a show (and see clips on YouTube, read, see Furthur, etc) and still be able to latch onto IT? Why is their 2012, show-less IT less valid than, say, a 1994 IT? Because the music isn't as loud? I mean, other than that, why?

Maybe one answer would be that, without a show, you can't have a gut feeling for the whole gestalt and tone. Intuiting isn't the same as experiencing. But that's a comment on the nature of time, really. It's a comment on whether a historian/music lover etc could really "get" the art or creative expression of past times.

For instance, can we "get" the movies of the WWII era? Yes and no. If we didn't see them THEN, we don't know what it felt like to ride on that trolley and go to the soda fountain and see the newsreel first about Europe burning and then escape into a world where black and white was modern and Lauren Bacall looked young and hip.

We can read a lot, watch a lot, look at pictures, and try to get flashes of what IT was. You can honestly say that's not IT if IT is about actual experience, which in the final analysis is ineffable and can't be conveyed and is lost as generations are lost.

But the thing about art is that it does preserve a bit of that IT and make it accessable to others who weren't even born at the time. Good art lasts, and it communicates its power -- and even some of its ITness -- over time.

So I think that when we defend the irretrievable IT experienced at a show, we're defending the way that history (cultural history, music history, etc) is invariably partial without personal experience. That's true enough. But if the GD made music that really transcends time, then I think it communicates the IT, too.

Pontificating over :-)

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jan 21, 2013 5:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I would agree that the music communicates, however I would disagree that it conveys the live experience when reproduced.

Now as far as eras are concerned, I've made no bones about the fact that I am a Touch Head of the highest order. The GD hotline was a HUGE deal to me and my friends in the late 80's and early 90's. Huge. It was not nonexistent, it was freakin' busy 24 hrs a day by the late eighties when I started going. Here's my list:

7/4/86 Rich Stadium
6/30/88 Silver Stadium
4/2/89 Pittsburg Civic Arena
4/8/89 Riverfront Coliseum
4/9/89 Freedom Hall
7/4/89 Rich Stadium
6/14/92 Giants Stadium
6/15/92 Giants Stadium
6/17/92 Charlotte Coliseum
6/18/92 Charlotte Coliseum
6/20/92 RFK
6/22/92 Star Lake Amphitheater
6/23/92 Star Lake Amphitheater
6/25/92 Soldier Field
6/26/92 Soldier Field
7/1/92 Buckeye Lake
6/13/93 Rich Stadium
9/10/93 Richfield Coliseum
9/13/93 The Spectrum
3/20/94 Richfield Coliseum
3/27/94 Nassau Coliseum
6/25/95 RFK

You will see about 95% of the shows I went to see werent exactly the pride of the canon. The experience I had at each one of these shows was unique and no amount of listening or watching can recreate the live experience. Accessibility has nothing to do with it. I find myself repeating the same things over and over here, so maybe I should put it another way.

How did you feel when you watched Jerry play live? "IT" is what I felt.

If you never saw Jerry play live you cannot answer that question, if you did - you GET "IT".

I have to be honest, I have no idea why this concept is so hard for everyone to accept. It's not an insult. It's not a knock on GD appreciation or knowledge. It's a fact.

Althea, how could you truly know any experience without actually experiencing it for yourself?

I will try one more example. I was in the Marine Corps. I have the actual experience of being a Marine. There are military history buffs out there who know waay more history than me about every battle the Marines have ever been part of.

Now, according to this flawed logic, the military history buff knows what it is like to be a Marine. They get "IT" because they are scholarly experts on the subject.

No way. Totally invalid. Unless you have done it you cannot truly know it.

I do appreciate what you are saying, but I still feel how I feel. There is no way someone who has never been to a show can tell me what it felt like to see the Grateful Dead play live. The live experience portion of The Grateful Dead phenominon is incredibly important and valid to gaining a greater understanding of the band.

This post was modified by Skobud on 2013-01-21 13:53:22

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 21, 2013 7:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I have some very boring news and revelations for you, Althea, Tell, and many other 21st-century (lost) souls.

"Hanging out with the band" and "attending shows" are virtually the same thing for most people. There are many shades of grey! This is "the shit"! This is the experience known as "IT"!

If the tapes are "IT" — and the rest is just bullshit, as many people here so expertly profess — then why are so many photos of GD getting a copyright © symbol put on them when people freely circulate their photos on internet sites? Why is it so important for them to use "© copyright" symbols on their photos, when in fact, the tapes — "and only the tapes" — are all the shit? I have never seen any taper, any tranferrer, any remasterer, or any matrixer ever put a "© copyright" symbol on their audio tapes of the band when they freely circulated them!! WtF??!!!!!!!! Who is trying to "copyright this shit"? Can you copyright "IT"? I do not consider myself to be "a collector".

Like the Marines, I say, Semper Fi!. A good soundman should be loyal to the band, and visa-versa. There's a lot of loyalty around here, and I resemble that!

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 21, 2013 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Re: The Marines get it; Semper Fi; history buffs; GD's 1970 Wesleyan Univ tapes; the Kent State massacre; ROTC and my dad; and me becoming a taper and having a great lifestyle...

Never forget the Reserve Officers' Training Corps!
Monte_B_Cowboy-csu_rotc.jpg

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 21, 2013 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

>Now, according to this flawed logic, the military history buff knows what it is like to be a Marine. They get "IT" because they are scholarly experts on the subject.

>No way. Totally invalid. Unless you have done it you cannot truly know it.

Just to clarify, I didn't say they'd "get" the whole shebang. If you haven't seen the elephant, as they said in the Civil War, you haven't seen the elephant.

My point was just that there are different elephants (different eras/"ITs"), and we have to use our intuition plus the communicative power of the music that we hear to latch onto the experience of different eras. Which is basically a version of what someone who never saw any show is doing.

It may come down to how much weight is put on the live experience/culture in reference to really "getting" the music. Certainly in terms of "getting" the culture/mood/tone etc, it's hard to do without having been there. But then, which "there" to "get" the "IT"? And is it possible to write a sentence like that without being hit over the head by an annoyed reader? :-)

Btw, interesting to see your show list! I didn't see any of those at all, and only one same year, even. I wonder how many people here were at the same shows?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jan 22, 2013 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Well said. I have to agree that getting one is not necessarily a requirement of getting the other. I know/knew quite a few people who found the concert going experience to be a negative (understand this was early 80's and on), saying that the "scene" was being trampled on by Blucher-clad frat boys projectile vomiting like it was an Olympic sport. Conversely there were folks who rarely if ever listened to tapes, saying that once you've seem 'em live tapes just didn't cut it.

It all boils down to the whole "to each his/her own" argument. What works for one doesn't have to work for the other.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jan 22, 2013 5:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Yea, we migrated around the Buffalo area mostly, but in '92 I was actually in the Marine Corps when we spent the most time on the road. Here's a few shots from the lot in RFK '92...

Photobucket

The top shot was taken right before we walked in. I think you can tell I am experiencing "IT" right there. The middle shot is my partner in crime. You can also see my '79 Thunderbird in the shot, which I still miss today. I loved that car. What a great day we had. They said 120000 people showed that day. It was also the Casey Jones bustout show and Billy blasted this fucking locomotive airhorn at the end of Space that scared the livin shit outta everyone. It was awesome though, because they dropped right in after that with Casey. It was really something to be seen. I had never been so startled and ecstatic at the same time.

This post was modified by Skobud on 2013-01-22 13:24:03

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 22, 2013 10:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

LOL, Skobud, when you said you had to Experience What It's Like to Be a Marine to really "get" it, I pictured sand and barbed wire and Desert Storm gas masks or maybe at least wrecking your knee by playing football on an aircraft carrier like my brother. And here you meant ... SEEING THE DEAD!

Your Marine experience coincided with going to Dead shows? That's some deployment. Oo-rah.

:-)

I pretty much stuck around my area, too, though that was close enough to Buffalo that we'd have probably hit the same shows if it was the same era. I did go to one show in Buffalo. That was the furthest I'd traveled up to that point to see a show, so it felt pretty adventurous to drive off to the far remote netherlands of Buffalo. And btw, it was very ITish!

http://archive.org/details/gd81-09-26.sbd.miller.18110.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jan 23, 2013 9:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Althea - It was insane. We totally bullshitted our leave papers and told no one in our squadron what we were doing except a couple close friends.

The funny part was that soo many people would come up to us and ask us why our hair was so short and a few thought we were cops. After about 5 days on the road though, we started seeing the same people in the same campgrounds and started caravaning and what not. One amazing thing to me is that we kept on seeing and hanging with the same people - even in these gigantic mob scenes. That worked very well in our favor becasue by the end we had to hustle to stay afloat.

Here's a few shots from the campground near Star Lake with some people we were on the road with. The bottom two were from the closest campground right near Star Lake. It was a state park so cops were everywhere. We actually stayed 3 nights there though. The top pick is from a farm we accidentally slept at - meaning we left the venue and drove as far as we could away until I had to sleep. I got off at some exit and we parked and crashed. The T-bird had gigantic bench seats both front and back and slept two extremely comfortably. We woke up and the view was so beautiful Pauly woke me up and snapped the pic the second I awoke.

Photobucket

As far as the actual Marine part of being a Marine, I was part of Desert Storm and I was deployed on two LHA's(amphibious assault ships), the Saigon and Wasp. I was avionics electrician attached to a Harrier squadron so we went wherever the infantry went. I served from 1989-1993 and did manage an honorable discharge.



This post was modified by Skobud on 2013-01-23 17:46:33

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Jan 24, 2013 12:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Nice camping spots, although they're short on color. Maybe Marines just have an affinity for black and white. Gives it that old Iwo Jima flavor. I assume you're the buzzcut one in black-and-white tie dye, ready to make a charge to the front? (OK, the front by the Jerry side, but as long as people don't ask for details, you can honestly say you were headed to the front.)

I had a cousin in the Marines in Desert Storm. As far as I can tell, the main excitement involved calling his mom (my aunt) and then saying "Air raid! Gotta go!" Happened every time. I can't vouch for whether the actual air raids happened every time.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Jan 22, 2013 12:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I got my driver's license in 1968. My first rig was a 1959 Buick. It had the starter switch built into the accelerator pedal. Then I got a 1963 Chevy with a 4-speed transmission. Then I bought a beautiful gold, four-speed, 1967 Olds 442 from a friend. I loved my 442. But then I became a hippie!

In 1972 I downsized to a dinky little Pinto. It was my first new car. I drove the Pinto to Phoenix with a friend in summer '72 to get some ditch weed. I drove it to Nassau Coliseum, RFK Stadium, Watkins Glen, and Roosevelt Stadium in 1973. About a week after Roosevelt Stadium it was "totalled" by some nut-case who ran a stop sign and nearly killed me.

I converted to Cowboy and went to electronics school full time (carpooling). I started driving VW beetles in 1974. I drove VWs for about eight years because they were very economic and reliable. I gained maximum independence and mobility during this period by driving VWs. Driving VWs was my ticket to electronics school, my ticket to taping Vassar Clements and Hillbilly Jazz and other shows, my ticket to becoming a soundman, my ticket to going camping all over the place, my ticket to working for Ampex, and my ticket to becoming a broadcast engineer.

my Ford Pinto made it to RFK Stadium, Watkins Glen, & Roosevelt Stadium
destroyed when struck by a drunk driver who nearly killed me in Aug 1973
dead-head_Monte-pinto.jpg
reflective"TRUCK IT" bumper stickers are displayed for Dead-heads
made in 1972 by my GD friend, "June 9 Taper-pointman Jay Delia"

I'm still not sure "exactly" how many shows I attended (1973 only). I'm using Deadbase, my memory, and my tapes. Deadbase lists GD shows at Nassau Coliseum and The Spectrum for both March AND September 1973. I think my car was totalled on Aug 10. (my Pinto photo is dated Aug 11.) I would have carpooled with my GD friends for the Nassau shows on Sept 7 and 8 and The Spectrum shows on Sept 20 and 21.

For the record: In 1971, I purchased an 8-track recording system to make my own 8-track tape cartridges. I wanted to play hippie music from my albums in my car's tape player. Then I made 8-track tapes for lots of my hippie friends. I was "hooked on taping" from the very first moment.

In fall 1972 I met Jimmy Watson and a bunch of NJ deadheads. Jimmy shared his GD reel-to-reel tape collection with me. I started making 8-track copies of GD tapes. Everyone was playing them in their cars. We went to the Nassau Coliseum shows on March 15, 16, and 19. After that, we agreed it would be great if I started taping shows.

I looked around for the best portable tape recorders. Cassettes were replacing 8-track tapes. I wasn't interested in buying a reel-to-reel recorder. I purchased my portable Sony stereo cassette recorder and Sony ECM-99 stereo mic together. I purchased them at Sam Goody's store located on Route 17 in Paramus, NJ in April or May 1973. My first tape deck may not have been a model "TC 2850 SD" but it looked exactly like the one pictured below.

Sony TC 2850 SD portable stereo cassette recorder
sony-tc-2850sd.jpg

Several model numbers evolved in Sony's tape deck products using the same chassis and case pictured above. For sure, my Sony tape deck did not have Chromium Dioxide tape bias, and it did not have Dolby noise reduction.

As I understand it, Jerry Moore's first time taping was Old And In The Way on June 8 at a bluegrass festival in Warrenton, VA.

June 9 was my first time taping, in Washington D.C. at RFK Stadium. Jay Delia gets credit for parting the crowd and leading me and my taping gear to the fob ground-zero point on June 9. Then I taped June 10. I refused to bring my taping gear to Watkins Glen. I had just taken delivery of my expensive new portable Nakamichi 550 tape deck.

dead-head_Monte-nak_550.gif

I taped July 31 and Aug 1 using the Nak. There's no SBD from July 31. Jerry Moore's copy is complete. My copy is missing reel 2 (lost). My reel 3 tape was seized by Hell' Angels security as the show was ending. Jimmy Watson went backstage with the Hell's Angel dude and retrieved my tape from the GD. This tape circulates today.

I taped some of the Nassau and Spectrum shows in September, but only a couple of them. It's very sketchy from my memory. I recorded other material over these tapes. I'm sure I gave copies to my friends first. I do have one old Maxell UD C90 cassette and case that is labeled "The Spectrum, Sept 20", including an indexed setlist on it. I recorded over this tape in 1974 with a jazz LP. (so I know how ghostofpig feels about old and lost GD tapes)



This post was modified by Monte B Cowboy on 2013-01-22 20:47:34

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Poster: cosmicharIie Date: Jan 22, 2013 10:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

I've always wondered, when you tape over a show, is there a very faint uhhh...something of it left on the tape?

Sorta like when people restore old paintings that were painted over - No? what about at a sub-atomic level - lol dumbass question??

This post was modified by cosmicharIie on 2013-01-22 18:24:12

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Poster: Piles Date: Jan 22, 2013 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

"I find myself repeating the same things over and over here,"

Its not that anybody is having a difficult time understanding what you're saying, its more that you leave no room for anyone else to have an opinion that differs from yours.
I'm sure you don't mean to come across that way but it really reads like "agree with me and you're right" or "disagree with me and your wrong."
Nobody wants to have their opinion invalidated.

By the way, I really like the pics.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jan 22, 2013 12:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Who is it?

What is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVhIzDT8HTw

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Poster: Piles Date: Jan 22, 2013 1:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7xNult1GVM&;feature=youtube_gdata_player

This isn't "it"

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jan 22, 2013 3:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

That will keep you awake if you need "it".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSBXqoaXwrI

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jan 21, 2013 4:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Sko,

I assume you are quite fond of early dead, of which you never saw. Do you feel your ability to understand "IT" is valid for the years prior to your first shows? From your description you shouldn't.

I totally understand that seeing a show live and then hearing the same thing on tape are two completely different experiences. However there is more objectivity to analyzing the music on tape than it is at the show. There may have been things at the show to make it better or worse, but the music is what the music is.

I think you agree with all of this but I'm trying to make sure.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jan 21, 2013 4:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Absolutely. My opinion is that music is a large part of the equation, but it is not the entire deal.

I dont understand the scene from the early seventies, but I did see them live. So specifically I suppose, the fact that I did go at some point provides me the life experience to have the insight to tell you the band is best experienced live.

We do agree dude - you know that. My point had nothing to do with understanding or appreciation. It has specifically to do with life experience which in turn creates value. Our values make us who we are. That's what I believe.

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Jan 21, 2013 5:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Right on. For me the music is the only part of the equation, I understand how you and others have something else, but its not possible for it to be a part of my perspective. I am grateful for being born when I was, I missed the trip but its pretty awesome having all the time access to essentially every dead concert recorded, basically non existent until 2004 when archive came around.

I have no bones about that. I believe that your experiences seeing the dead live had a big impact. I think it would be interesting to develop an essay about the development of becoming a dead head for someone like yourself or others fortunate enough to have seen in comparison to younger folk like me or clementine and our path into becoming a dead head.

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Poster: BVD Date: Jan 20, 2013 11:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: The Importance of Attending a Show: Part II

Kerouac had a pretty good grasp of it. He describes it in one of his novels. Cant't remember which one though-Maybe On The Road. If not,guess you'll have to read all of 'em to find it.